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| SXSW '08 Interview: "Wild Blue Yonder" Director Celia Maysles |
by Erik Childress
The “Wild Blue Yonder" Pitch: WILD BLUE YONDER (2007) is the first documentary feature from filmmaker Celia Maysles. Just seven years old when father David Maysles (SALESMAN, GREY GARDENS, GIMME SHELTER) died in 1987 from an unexpected stroke, Celia Maysles had no idea her father and his brother Albert were pioneers of verité documentary filmmaking. In WILD BLUE YONDER, Celia takes us on a daring journey to the past, and to herself, to understand the father she never knew.
How did this film get rolling at the beginning? Give us a brief history from writing to production to post to just last night.
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CELIA: I do not come from a filmmaking background. I was running a homeless outreach clinic with a physician before I started making this film. One night I sat down to watch Grey Gardens for the first time (at age 23-ish). Yes, I hadn’t watched his films before then. I realized that what my dad did in his work was so similar to what I was doing—giving voice to someone or some story that otherwise wouldn’t be heard. From that night on—from that first real connection to him-- I knew I had to get to know my dad.
I started making Wild Blue Yonder that spring because I thought it would help me get to know/ bring me closer to my father, David Maysles, who died when I was very young. I wanted to walk in his footsteps and go through the entire process of filmmaking as a way to get to know him. I started interviewing people he was close to and worked with and right away it was clear that there was so much material and even after 20 years my dad was very much alive in people’s memories and thoughts. I got to know him through all the stages of making a film. When I was fundraising and totally frustrated I would think to myself my gosh—if it’s this hard now what must it have been like for him before nonfiction film was so popular? I found notes of his from when he was editing Gimme Shelter with Charlotte Zwerin and all the scenes had these names like “love in vain” or whatever and then I would sit there writing, “bathtub scene” and “cheese scene” in the edit on Wild Blue Yonder.
I could go on for pages about all the amazing and horrible things that happened in production and post, but the most important thing to me is that by the end, after four years of treacherous, wonderful, rewarding, amazing, and frustrating work I got to know my dad. And, I got hooked on filmmaking. I love making films and plan to make more.
For those unfamiliar with it, tell the readers the basis for your father’s "Blue Yonder" and what remains of it?
CELIA: Blue Yonder is the name of a film my father was working on at the time of his death. In my film you hear audio of my dad saying “all great works of art are autobiographical.” In Blue Yonder he was looking at the characters in his films and seeing how they relate to people in his own life. For example, he thought that Mick Jagger was like his cousin Alan who was a big influence on him in his childhood.
What remains of it I don’t really know. When my dad died there was a lawsuit that lasted 4.5 years and in the end Al got the rights to all the footage including Blue Yonder—so he has the footage some where I asked to see it when making my film and Al never let me see any of that footage or outtakes from Blue Yonder or any of the films my dad and he made together.
Back when you were a little kid, and you were asked that inevitable question, your answer would always be “When I grow up I want to be a …” what?
CELIA: I don’t remember. I think a ballerina or something.
How did you get your real “start” in filmmaking?
CELIA: Wild Blue Yonder is my “start.”
What was your relationship with your uncle like before you started making this film?
CELIA: My Uncle and I didn’t have a relationship before this film really. I had seen him a few times since my dad died. I had always wanted a relationship with him and I would call him every few years to try and get together with him and my cousins. It was always sort of awkward. I thought through making this film it would bring us closer—it would be a way for us to grieve my father together—a way for us to bond over filmmaking and my father’s memory. I had high hopes for getting my Uncle back. Obviously that didn’t happen.
David was thirteen was his father died. You were seven. While most of us today have lived through the age of the home video camera and its evolution, very few will not have home movies of varying formats of their parents to look back upon. Probably even less though will be put in the position of being denied access to that footage. What precisely are Albert’s plans for his autobiographical film? Did he ever let you just view the footage?
CELIA: My dad never made any home movies. The only footage of him is when he starting filming Blue Yonder and in the outtakes of their films (like you see a glimpse of him in Grey Gardens and Gimme Shelter so I assume there are more little glimpses of him in the archives). Al never let me see any outtakes or any of Blue Yonder. I asked for 4 years to see footage. The footage at the end of the film I found through the Larry Rivers Foundation—Larry was one of my dad’s best friends. I have no idea about Al’s autobiography or if he is even making one. No, Al never let me see any footage of my father.
The way Albert throws around the word “competition” makes him sound a lot like Daniel Plainview; albeit a bit calmer. Is it a matter of just ego and stubbornness that’s preventing him from allowing you access to it?
CELIA: I am not a competitive person—so my belief has always been if you are good at something you have nothing to worry about. If you make a good film it will do well regardless of how many other films there are with similar subjects. In this case there was my film about my father and my search to get to know him and then there was his film about himself. Two totally different films, two different views on the world—if anything they could have complimented each other. I see no valid reason for him not letting me even SEE footage of my dad. And no reason for him to not let me use clips from their films to help show who my father was in this world.
Is this your first trip to SXSW? Got any other film festival experience? If you’re a festival veteran, let us know your favorite and least-favorite parts of the ride.
CELIA: This is my first time at SXSW. I’ve heard great things about this festival so I am very excited! I’ve been to a few festivals with other films, and IDFA with Wild Blue Yonder. I think festivals are great—they help raise awareness about your film, help to make sales, you meet other filmmakers which is always nice. No real downside for me—yet anyway.
Do you feel any differently about your film now that you know it’s on “the festival circuit?”
CELIA: No. I’m just excited that a lot of people are getting to see the film and that the response so far has been great. That makes me happy. Ultimately I made this film for myself and for my dad—but having other people like it is a really nice bonus.
During production did you ever find yourself thinking ahead to film festivals, paying customers, good & bad reviews, etc?
CELIA: Of course. You have to. Especially for raising money—people want to know that your film is going to get out there and potentially make the money back. And you want to make sure that the audience is getting something out of the film too—especially if you want to make another film—which I do J
Of all the Muppets, which one do you most relate to?
CELIA: I don’t remember their personalities that clearly.
If you could share one massive lesson that you learned while making this movie, what would it be?
CELIA: Oh my gosh—I learned so many lessons. Work with a great editor. Don’t be afraid to go deep—even when it’s uncomfortable and you are afraid to dig deeper. Do it!
What films and filmmakers have acted as your inspirations, be they a lifelong love or a very specific scene composition?
CELIA: I am not a film buff. I’m very new to all this. I love Herzog films, Pedro Almodovar, all kinds of films. I would say that my biggest inspirations have come from my dad and the people he worked with who so generously shared their craft with me. Henry Corra, Xan Parker, Bob Richman, Bruce Sinofsky, Joe Berlinger, Susan Froemke, Muffee Meyer, Deborah Dickson…hope I’m not forgetting anyone here-- all opened their arms and shared with me both about my fathers work and their own work.
Did you watch any movies in pre-production and yell “This! I want something JUST like this …only different.”?
CELIA: Not really. I watched a lot of films about parent child relationships, losing a parent, finding a parent etc. I enjoyed watching the films—mostly to learn what was out there so that when a funder said it’s been done already I could say how mine was different.
If you had the opportunity to make a film with your dad, was there a particular subject you would have loved to explore with him that didn’t involve your family or personal relationship?
CELIA: I just did make a film with my dad--Wild Blue Yonder is very much a collaboration with him. I’ve never thought about another film I would want to work on with him. Mostly I just want to have a conversation with him.
What actor would you cast as your favorite cartoon character?
CELIA: I have no idea
Say you landed a big studio contract tomorrow, and they offered you a semi-huge budget to remake, adapt, or sequelize something. What projects would you tackle?
CELIA: I really have no interest in making fiction films. I appreciate fiction and love watching fiction films, but I am only interested in making non-fiction. I love real life and working with real people.
Finish this sentence: If I weren’t a filmmaker, I’d almost definitely be...
CELIA: I have no idea. I’ve worked in immigration law, in overseas programs for high school students, in a homeless health clinic. I just love working with people—anything that allows me to get to know people I wouldn’t otherwise get to know makes me happy. I also love to speak Spanish and Italian.
Who’s an actor you’d kill to work with?
CELIA: Again, I don’t have a huge interest in working with actors. I do have actors I like to watch though…Phillip Seymour Hoffman is one of my favorites. I almost got to meet him through making my film because I read somewhere how he studied my dad’s film on Truman Capote for his role in Capote.
Have you “made it” yet? If not, what would have to happen for you to be able to say “Yes, wow. I have totally made it!”
CELIA: I got to know my dad and I made a film that I am proud of. That’s all I care about. The process is way more interesting to me than “making it.” What is the “it”, anyway?
The world of documentaries have had many pioneers of style. David & Albert were part of the Direct Cinema movement which was likely the template by which the public at large thought of the medium; with the emphasis on “document”. That is, at least, until Michael Moore and others came around to offer specific points of view on politics, religion and other social moirés. Wild Blue Yonder clearly documents your search for information about your father but very specific in your personal struggles to obtain it. How did you go about reconciling the two or were you even conscious of it when editing it all together?
CELIA: I’m not sure I totally understand this question so I may be way off here. I’m interested in real people—their stories, their struggles, their emotions. I don’t think I will ever be a political filmmaker. I have respect for all filmmakers because making a film, a good film, is a really hard thing to do. I think you pick a story you are passionate about telling—in this case my search to get to know my father—and you go for it. Then in the edit you work with a gifted editor (for my film Charlene Rule) and you decide how you want to tell this story. Getting to know my dad was a very personal endeavor—pretty much everything about my film is personal. I think that the most memorable nonfiction films are the ones that go very deep into the person or persons you are filming. I like to go deep and search for truth…so that’s what my film is about. Other people are more passionate about the history or the politics of an issue or situation—for me I’m passionate about human nature and emotions and telling a story from a human perspective. Hope that answers the question!
Do you worry about the potential criticism that you might be using a medium, that David & Albert defined almost by being so impersonal in their involvement, to gain a public advantage in the struggle you’re having with your uncle?
CELIA: There is this myth out there that my dad and Uncle were fly’s on the wall and didn’t involve themselves. I don’t believe you can ever be a fly on the wall. Edie Beale had a HUGE crush on my dad. She performs for him in the film. I think that’s why my dad added his voice into the film—to show the viewer that Edie was reacting to him—dancing for him etc. In the time in they were making films what they were doing was revolutionary. They were constantly trying to define what they did because it was so foreign and unheard of. Their whole wrap about filming life unfold is totally correct. But impersonal…I think it was incredibly personal. This kind of filmmaking is all about building trust and getting personal.
Do you remember what you had written on your hand when you’re in the bathtub?
CELIA: Ha! I always have stuff written on my hand. I am hyper organized and have always kept an insane day planner. When I first started meeting people who knew my dad they would laugh at how similar I am to my dad. He kept the same type of book except his was Hermes (I swear by Moleskin). Anyway, my dad kept all his Hermes’ dating back to the 1960’s! That’s what I found in the basement scene in my film when I opened that box. If it’s something super important I write it in the planner AND on my hand.
Honestly, how important are film critics nowadays?
CELIA: I think very important. It’s how people hear about your film and a good review can validate a film. My dad apparently always said any press is good press.
What would mean more to you? A full-on rave from an anonymous junketeer or an average, but critically constructive review from a respected print or online journalist?
CELIA: I’m curious to hear what anyone thinks of my film. But the ones that mean the most in the industry and help get you work in the future are from prestigious critics.
You’re told that your next movie must have one “product placement” on board, but you can pick the product. What would it be?
CELIA: If only I could get a corporation to give me money for that! I wanted to do that as a way to raise money for Wild Blue Yonder. I thought maybe Hermes because of his books…corporate sponsorship is very hard to get and takes a lot of work. I never got it for this film. I work on tons of real people commercials with Corra Films, so I’m a fan of many products—in particular Crest ProHealth toothpaste J What product would of course depend on the film and what would not be painfully obvious as product placement.
What’s your take on the whole “a film by DIRECTOR” issue? Do you feel it’s tacky, because hundreds (or at least dozens) of people collaborate to make a film – or do you think it’s cool, because ultimately the director is the final word on pretty much everything?
CELIA: I think that all the roles in filmmaking should be recognized—in particular the editors of non-fiction film who write the film in the edit. We make the film backwards—the “screenplay” is written in the edit. I think the directors role is huge and they should be recognized more, but so should everyone else. My dad believed in the “film by” credit which is why Wild Blue Yonder is “a film by Celia Maysles and Charlene Rule”—director and editor.
"Do you feel there's irony in your father spending his career documenting the very specific lives of others only to see much of his own footage shrouded in lawsuits and away from the eyes of his family, let alone cinephiles who love his work?"
CELIA: There was so much irony in this process it was ridiculous. The biggest irony is listening to Al speak to crowds of fans about loving the people you film, people sharing their lives for films -all this dogma about verite filmmaking and here I was trying to make a film about his brother, my father and him not showing me footage or letting me use clips of the films in my film. More than ironic it just makes me sad.
At the end of the day, when a soul passes into the great blue yonder, is there anyone that can lay claim to that person’s life more than another?
CELIA: I believe in sharing the life with all the people that person loved—even if you don’t like them for whatever reason. For example, if Al hates my mom, but my dad loved my mom--out of respect for him, share with my mom. That’s my opinion. When my best friend died her parents shared her things with us (her friends) and never denied us access to things that helped us grieve or made us feel connected to her.
In the modern world, in general, the spouse and child are entitled to the husband’s/father’s life. That’s what the general feeling and laws are anyway. If my family owned everything and Al wanted to have certain things or access to things I would give him access to it without question. I don’t believe in hoarding. I am a sharer.
In closing, we ask you to convince the average movie-watcher to choose your film instead of the trillion other options they have. How do you do it?
CELIA: I’m not very good at promoting my own work. If you love film and filmmaking you should definitely see the film. If you are interested in familial relationships, if you like the Maysles Brothers, if you appreciate art and artists you should see the film.
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Celia Maysles' Wild Blue Yonder will screen at the 2008 South By Southwest Film Festival on Sunday, March 9 (11:00 AM) at Austin’s Paramount Theater. It will screen again at the Alamo Lamar on Tuesday, March 11 (2:30 PM) and Friday, March 14 (7:30 PM).
link directly to this feature at http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/feature.php?feature=2412
originally posted: 02/29/08 17:09:05
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